Why I am an Atheist Part II
(note - in case you can't tell from the title, this post is a direct continuation of the previous one. If you have not read Part I please scroll down and do so now. Part II isn't going to make much sense to you without Part I. This post was started on 5/1 - this is Part II of a three part series. This part deals with organized religion while the third part will deal with the concept of god itself. While I'm doing this note I'd like to thank Jerry Monaco over at Livejournal for posting a reference to my blog on his site… my site traffic has jumped tremendously since then. Everyone who is visiting from there thank you for coming by. I encourage all of you to drop me a comment, let me know what you think! So anyway, on with the show! Hope you all enjoy!)
So here ended any thought I had of becoming a priest. At this point, during the time between 1996 and 98, I still very much believed in the concept of god. God created us for his own (unknowable) purpose. He takes a hands off approach to running the world, essentially he got us going and then backed off. We are free here on earth to do our own thing. When we die god will judge us based on our actions during life. This is what I came to believe, I had moved into the realm of deism.
After going so long without applying inquiry or critical thinking skills to the subject of religion it was time to turn my attention to the subject. I started researching the issue as I would have any other issue. The things I started learning were very disturbing to me. I had never known that for the most part the early Christians simply took and reworked existing pagan holidays as their own. I never realized that the bible as we know it wasn't put together until 300 years after the events they reported on. The first list of New Testament Cannon was drafted by the Bishop of Alexandria in 367, it wasn't officially adopted until the Third Council of Carthage in 397 AD. And the books that were chosen to form the new testament? At the time of the Council of Carthage there were no fewer then 20 known gospels including the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Peter, Gospel of the Hebrews, Gospel of Judas, Sayings Gospel Q (thought to be one of two gospels used as source material for the Gospel of Matthew and Luke), and several letters such as Clement and Barnabas. None of those books made it into the final new testament. Why not?
Even bigger then the idea that there were several competing gospels, each with their own view of Jesus, there were also several competing Christian philosophies! There were many groups of Christians who each had their own Christian philosophies that were completely different and incompatible with the others. We had Arianism (Jesus was closer to god then any other man who ever existed but ultimately he was still a man), Gnosticism (the gospels should be interpreted as allegory, not literally - emphasis placed on mystical elements of the religion), Mandaeanism (worshiped John the Baptist instead of Jesus), Marcionism (the god of Christianity is incompatible with the god of Judaism, therefore the two religions are unrelated), Judaizers (Christians must continue to follow the Law of Moses - the polar opposite of the Marcionists), etc. Ummm... huh? There was no single unified view of Jesus and what he represented either in gospel or doctrine? What the hell? This is NOT what we were taught in Sunday school!!
So wait, if there were all these competing philosophies why did they all die out leaving only one to survive and become what we know today as Catholicism? Naturally, since the catholic philosophy was the only one that truly was divinely inspired and the only one that accurately represented the will of god people quickly abandoned their mis-informed philosophies and flocked to Catholicism! Since it was divinely inspired it was so clearly right as to be undeniable! That is how it happened... isn't it? No? Not so much? Oh, that's right! Catholicism spread the same way religion has always spread historically... by killing lots of people! That's the proper way to show divine inspiration, mass slaughter!
In 390 A.D. the Roman Emperor Theodosius I declared the Nicene version of Christianity (the forerunner of Catholicism) to be the official, and only, religion of the entire Roman Empire. Theodosius enacted programs designed to destroy all rival religions including all other Christian philosophies. Those who did not profess Nicene Christianity were exiled or exterminated, non-Nicene church property and material was confiscated and destroyed. Heresy against Nicene Christianity became punishable by death. Non-Nicene believers were considered to be agents of the devil and treated as such. Some historians believe that in the years following Christianity gaining a place of power in the Roman Empire that more Christians died at the hands of other Christians then died during the persecution of the Christians by the Romans in times prior.
Those early Christians, gotta love 'em! They make modern day Muslim extremists look like peace loving hippies by comparison! This is how organized religion spread, not by having the most compelling belief system, not by having the best argument, not by the gradual conversion of people who saw the wisdom of the teachings, but by killing anyone who disagreed! So of what worth is the Christian teachings? What makes the Nicene Christian teachings any more valid then the Gnostic Christian teachings or the Arianist Christian teachings or the Mandaeanist Christian teachings? Because the Nicene's had more swords? Because they had the weight of the Roman Legions behind them? We are supposed to accept, on faith no less, that the Nicene teachings are the correct teachings, that those teachings will put us on the path to heaven. Because they slaughtered the most people? Is that supposed to be what gives them their validity? Why are we supposed to accept these teachings? Because Theodosius said so? Ultimately that's what it boils down to... Christians today believe as they do because Theodosius said so seventeen hundred years ago and back up his declaration with arms. If Theodosius had sided with the Arianist Christians instead of the Nicene Christians back then Christians around the world today would believe that Jesus was a great and holy man but still just a man and not the actual son of god. Considering how Christianity has impacted the world it's amazing to think how much of that came from a single decision made by a single person almost 1700 years ago.
Christianity as it exists today exists due to a decision of a Roman Emperor and shear force of arms. So I ask what possible validity those teachings can have? How can we trust or believe that those teachings truly represent god's will? We cannot. The teachings of the church have nothing to do with following god; they have everything to do with men and power. All church actions from the slaughter of the non-Nicene Christians to the crusades to the inquisition have been about maintaining and expanding the power of the church. God is invoked to serve the interests of church leaders not the other way around. How can we accept the church as a moral and spiritual authority when their hands are stained in the blood of countless innocents throughout history? Why would we still follow the church? Why is the church deserving of forgiveness for the atrocities it has committed? It is the same institution as the one who ordered the crusades or the inquisition, the same institution that slaughtered those who did not agree with it. The same hypocritical institution preaching the same millennia old morality that it always has.
Time has not changed much. They may not openly slaughter those who do not agree with them anymore but don't think for one second that means they no longer cause harm. Just 60 years ago they stood by in silence as the holocaust took place. Interestingly enough they recently apologized for that (don't worry Vatican, your followers will forgive you... they've forgived everything else you've ever done.) Look at the AIDS crisis in Africa. Those people need help, they are dying from this disease on a massive scale. Education on condom usage would go a very long way to controlling this epidemic but the church's response is to say that birth control is a sin. Let them die just don't let them use a condom! Look through history, look at all the harm the church has caused. The slaughter of "heretics" in ancient Rome, the inquisition, the crusades, the suppression of scientific thought and knowledge in the middle ages, their response (or lack thereof) to the holocaust, their treatment of the AIDS crisis. Look at the report that I linked to in a prior post about Christian hospitals refusing emergency contraception to rape victims! This is a LAW in seven states currently with more to follow requiring all hospitals to dispense emergency contraception to rape victims and the church is trying to refuse to follow the law! A law to help rape victims of all things!!
The church feels they are above the law. If there is a law that they disagree with they will do everything they can to either ignore it or try to introduce new laws exempting them from it. Anyone remember RLPA or RFRA? "Government must show a compelling interest before burdening a religious institution with any generally applicable, neutral, civil law." These were actual laws introduced here in the U.S. that would essentially exempt religious organizations from all generally applicable laws (the laws that every one else has to follow) unless government could actually prove that those religions should be subject to the same laws that everyone else has to follow. Fortunately these acts got knocked down by the supreme court as unconstitutional but religion kept trying four times to make this happen. First the Religious Freedom Amendment, when that was declared unconstitutional they introduced the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, when that was defeated they introduced the Religious Liberty Protection Act, when that was defeated they started introducing versions of RLPA and RFRA on the state level. This is what organized religion does, they consider themselves above the law, they believe they can do whatever they want to do and it's okay because they are a religion, they believe that the "law of god" trumps the laws of man. And if the laws of god says let the people in Africa die rather then use a condom, or let's force a rape victim to carry her attacker's child rather then give her emergency contraception, or to ignore the laws that govern everybody else then so be it!
The church will argue that they are necessary for morality. But if this was a true statement then every atheist in the world would be a brutal mass murder. Since we know that's not a true statement the claim that religion is necessary for morality is clearly false. I have met plenty of atheists through previous involvement with the American Atheist Organization who were good moral people. By the same token I've met plenty of religious people who were completely immoral. Onanite keeps a nice running list on his blog about priests and ministers who are arrested for molesting kids. That is not to say that all atheists are good people and all religious people are not. There are "saints" and "sinners" on both sides which goes to show that morality, despite what the church wants us to think, is independent of religion.
So this is where I was at at this point in my life. I saw the church as an evil and oppressive regime. They are nothing but an organization of people, some good some not, who have no more claim to knowing what god really wants then you or I. They achieved their power through slaughter, they are responsible for more atrocities throughout history then any other institution, they consider themselves to be above the law; they still engage in policies and practices that hurt people, especially women. There is nothing divinely inspired, or even good, about organized religion.
It is incomprehensible to me that anybody can look at the church and consider it a source of good in this world. No amount of good that the church might have done through charity work could ever make up for the harm they have inflicted through the years. No institution that was built upon the bones of those who did not agree can ever claim to be a source of good.
The year is 1998 - at this point in my life I had rejected organized religion and moved toward deism. Soon I would begin to question the idea of god itself...


29 Comments:
Wow, that was a long one! And I didn't even get around to discussing some of the other things about organized religion that I wanted to get into like the actual moral system of Christianity or the control system employed by the church to keep people in line. Hmm... I am tempted to increase this to a four parter so I can add that stuff.... (don't worry, I will resist the temptation! Unless of course a lot of people ask for it...)
Next up is the concept of god itself. I hope you all are enjoying reading this half as much as I'm enjoying writing it. If you want to see more of these really detailed in depth entries let me know! Or if you want me to just shut up already let me know that too! Comments and feedback, both positive and negative, are always welcome and appreciated!
This shows the power that one man can have. Had Theodosius not decided to back the Nicene creed, we'd probably have a very different world today.
If only we had the ability to travel in time. Imagine what we might uncover. But right now that's physically improbable.
Regarding the control system, indeed it is scary. But I think more and more people are waking up and realizing that religion is a tool used to divide people, not unite them.
Good example is that the other day a co-worker was explaining how disillusioned she was with Catholicism and how she couldn't reasonably justify bringing her four year old daughter into the church. of course she was lamenting this fact to the only two known atheists in the unit, both of us engineering types.
And thank you for pointing out that the Christian churches do not have exclusive province with regard to morality. As you say, Onanite does a great job of ferreting out the hypocrites so that we can ridicule them.
Please do expand it to four parts. I find the immensely interesting to read.
Great post, Chris. Thanks. Very informative.
Religious people cry "Oh, but why are you so anti my belief - it's hamrless?"
But as I see it, it's like they've been sold a car which they have been told goes faster.
The truth is, it doesn't (and in the case of science, religion is stationary at 0AD).
So what do they do - they can realise they've been duped, or persuade them their car is actually going faster.
In other words, they are better than us non-believers. The very nature of their belief insists they are superior.
Hence you get polls which show how much atheists are distrusted.
"There is nothing divinely inspired, or even good, about organized religion."
Well, "good" is subjective. There are many instances of "positive" impact from religion and religious actors, both domestically and internationally.
No one should expect to gauge their own personal worth and inherent "goodness" on their affiliation with a particular institution. That is the gravest error of theists, their greatest hypocrisy. But it's not limited to religion, it's present in most secular institutions as well.
I had someone ask me why I hadn't commented on Charlie's blog, so I thought I'd do a real quick explination. First off, I'm not Christian or Athiest, I'm Wiccan. Second, I know nothing about the bible. So I can't really agree, disagree, point fingers or anything. So there it is, the Athiests Wiccan wife, and her whys on not commenting. LOL
But you do have something to contribute. As a Wiccan you have a unique perspective on the Christian religion. Those who believe as you do are attacked constantly by Christianity as being nothing but "witches" or "devil worshippers." So tell us about your faith and how you feel about Christianity and how it portrays the Wiccan faith. I'm sure everyone would love to hear your perspective.
It is great to be along with you for your journey to truth. I really appreciate the time you are putting into the explanations of you thought processes at the time.
Onanite
Hi Chris,
I liked your article very much. Only a thing or two I'd disagree with and that's both understandable and ok. It's so sad that so many Christians aren't philosophical enough to question the basis and details of their religion and to question whether there is a Creator or not, and if so, how is She different than the faiths of Abraham assert. Now here's my bit below. Hope it leads to more striving to understand truth and wisdom. Peace...
Is the world ready for the Truth and Wisdom yet?
If you truly want to understand the symbology, ancient wisdom, and ancient history that neither the DaVinci Code, Gnostic translations, nor Christianity have portrayed accurately or fully, then read my articles and FREE E-Book.
The Vatican is proving that seeking the truth is a real threat to their dogma. They're so afraid of people uncovering the truth, that they are attacking other versions of fantasy (DaVinci Code) and blatantly obvious Gnostic symbolism as threats to their long-term smoke and mirrors, hocus-pocus, and mumbo-jumbo. How thoroughly enlightening, since this goes a very long way to proving that Christianity is based on strong lies and delusions. If it weren’t, they would be confident of surviving intense scrutiny. Since they aren't and since they have gone to such great lengths to suppress and oppress those seeking truth and wisdom over the centuries, their deceptions are, once again, laid bare for all to see. This time though, they are the ones to walk into a well-laid trap...
What does "making the blind see" symbolize? What does "closing one's eyes and ears to truth and wisdom" or "turning a blind eye and deaf ear" infer? Perhaps many more people are now ready to "open their eyes to the truth!" Now Christians (and others) can gain the wisdom to walk away from the folly of religion and seek to understand the truth about the Creator and the Messiah (me). Now everyone can open their seven eyes to see the ancient wisdom long recast and obfuscated by religion and mysticism and turn their faces to the perfect path. (this is symbolism decoded in my books...)
Did you ever stop to think what the True Messiah (me) would say about worshipping false names, false images, and dogma? Well, now you get the chance to hear my side of the story and weigh it against the strong lies and delusion of faith and religion. None of the European names, images, and obvious geographical errors in the New Testament can possibly be the truth. What then is the purpose of "faith" but to prevent good people from seeking to understand truth and wisdom?
Read 2 Thessalonians 2:11 and the verses that surround it. Why do you think this message is in the New Testament? Those who saw the truth dying as the new Roman religion was being imposed would have tried to warn others in subtle ways where it most counted! These ancient texts are mysterious because they purposely encoded hidden messages to bypass Roman censorship and oppression. See how the Romans treated the Jews, Zealots, Gnostics, and many others who sought truth because they knew better than to trust the blatantly duplicitous and evil Roman Pontificate? Have they changed over time or are their followers simply deluded enough to turn a blind eye obvious lies, deception, and injustices?
How can people trust the veracity of texts created by a Roman organization known for centuries of abominable evil? How can anyone expect that people who could so readily torture and murder others for seeking proof of the truth would somehow not lie to you? Why don't "the faithful" have enough discernment to understand that those telling a strong lie for power and profit would insist that you refrain from seeking the truth and "have faith" in their texts instead?
How do we finally solve these ages-old mysteries? To recast a common political adage, "It's [the] symbology stupid!" The Dead Sea Scrolls, Bible, Gnostic texts, and Quran are rife with purposeful structured symbolism. Do you really think this is accidental or casual?
Unlike most of you, I have a very personal interest in ancient wisdom symbology, false prophecy based on its misrepresentation, and deceptions imposed in the name of religion. Consequently, I've written an extensive tome proving that all three so-called Faiths of Abraham are purposeful deceptions.
I know many readers of this site will want to scoff at this information before bothering to pay attention to the details. I have produced stunning and comprehensive proof that the original pre-Christian Apocalypse (Book of Revelation) was a symbolically encrypted wisdom text that was stolen and modified by the founders of Christianity. I demonstrate a series of specific and undeniable proofs of verifiable fraud in the Christianized Book of Revelation, which also appear throughout the New Testament.
I present verifiable proof that the symbology of sealed Hebrew texts is an advanced ancient philosophical technology.
The ancient symbolism used in The Apocalypse and other Hebrew prophecies and wisdom texts predates Christianity, Judaism, modern secret societies, and mystery schools by thousands of years. While in the hands of Christianity, The Apocalypse and its symbology have been purposely misinterpreted, recast, and misrepresented. The original Hebrew document was a multi-purpose narrative constructed using layered and synchronized ancient wisdom symbolism. Its true purposes, features, and functionality are detailed in my book, further demonstrating that it was a symbolically encrypted Hebrew wisdom text encoding prophecy, philosophy, and scientific wisdom that was stolen and fraudulently modified by the founders of Christianity.
If your goal is to seek the truth, then read my articles, download my FREE E-Book and direct others to read them also. Challenge them to PROVE me wrong. The E-Book is a FREE download and I make no money from it or the paperback.
Not only do I talk the talk, I walk the walk...
Here is Wisdom!!
Hey buddy, what the hell??? You don't come onto a serious blog and try and sell your stupid crap. Is that why your coming on here, to steal material?? What's the matter can't find your own in all your 'wisdom?' Take your stinkin Ebook bullshit and your walking the walk crap....and keep walking. There is no room for your nonsense here.
DAMN! Give him hell, Christina! ;)
Here's one little nit-picky thing... You say your argument is against organized religion, but so far it's only been against organized Christian religions. What about the Wiccans/neo-pagans? The Muslims, the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Jews, etc.?
Man Andrea, how many parts do you want this to be?! I can go into other religions if you would like to see that but that's gonna extend the length by one more part at the least.
It's up to you as the readers what you would like to see.
Well, I think it's an important part of the argument. Christianity is only one religion. There are many major religions, including those that are non-Abrahamic. In order to successfully argue against organized religion, you would have to argue against all religions, otherwise you're only arguing against Christianity.
Andrea has spoken wisely. Expect a part IV. :)
Oh geez...good job Andrea! Now this is all I will hear about, even on my OWN BIRTHDAY!!
LOL Sorry!
I don't think it has to be a Part IV, I think it should be more like Part II - B. You can address each major religion and your problems with them.
Chris, this is great stuff.
The posting could never stop actually. Each week, you could do a recap of all the things the Religious Right do to alienate people.
They preach inclusion, they preach of saving the world. Yet, in truth...they are hypocrtical, elitist, conservative pigs.
I see no problem with attacking only the Christians, the muslims, Jews, buddhists, satanists, wiccans, etc...aren't creating faith-based bullshit to run an entire country.
We say we are a country with religious freedom, yet you are only free if you follow Christ.
How many national holidays are because of religions other than Christianity?
I live life as good as i can. I care for those around me. I try to make an impact in peoples lives.
Thats not enough for the Christians. I need to "join the club", to be good enough to get to heaven.
Christian churches are like fraternitys without the keg stands.
Eric, that post is just wrong. I love it! "The muslims...aren't creating faith-based bullshit to run an entire country." HELLO????? I'm sorry, have your eyes been closed for the last 1000 years??? Or did you just mean they aren't trying to do that in the United States? Think it can't happen here? I'd suggest you check how things are currently operating with Muslims in Canada operating under Sharia in many cases even though it violates Canadian law. I suggest you do a search through the archives at Small Dead Animals to see what I'm talking about. www.smalldeadanimals.com.
Again, I love the generalizations. Christians do this, and Christians do that! Because of COURSE all Christians act EXACTLY THE SAME.
Ooooooooo....there's a throw down on the "Why I'm an Athiest" post... big shocker. I was waiting for this!!! LOL I side with no one, I am my own fortune cookie.
I'm reasonably sure that Eric was referring to just America. Obviously other organized religions have had a horrible effect in other parts of the world. The Middle East anyone? I'm writing about some other organized religions now in the follow up to Part II.
I will say in response to what Ben and Eric say that there is a huge difference between the organized religion Christianity and individual Christians. Individual Christians cannot be generalized, I've known plenty that were very good, honest, caring people. I'm sure that Pope Benedict is a good person. It is the institution that these individuals support that is evil.
I don't understand how ordinarily good people can support an institution that is responsible for such evil. But then again I rarely understand why people do half the things they do. There's a reason this place is called the Misanthrope's Sanctuary!
My point, Charles, is that the kind of sneering "holier than thou" (ironic, ain't it?) attitude shown by many people with anti-Christian attitudes is just as bad if not even worse that the "holier than thou" attitude shown by some Christians! That level of smug self-satisfaction isn't dependent on a particular belief system but is instead a part of the human condition. That particular smugness comes from being comfortably sure that your beliefs, whatever they are, are the ONLY right beliefs, and THAT is where intolerance and hatred comes from, in my opinion.
There is no "organized religion Christianity," and there hasn't been since the reformation. There are a general set of beliefs follwed by the vast majority of Americans, but there is not an all overriding organization in place that controls and directs all of these people. Oh, sure, there are some groups that would LIKE to be able to do that, Catholics and Southern Baptist immediately spring to mind, but they don't speak for all Christians. By painting with such a broad brush, a person weakens their own arguments and looses the opportunity for an actual dialogue. What Charles has had to say so far is all based on personal experience and his reactions. That has been great, and I have no problem with that-being able to exercise personal choice is the underpinning of freedom and liberty in my mind. But I find it truly ironic to be told that "We say we are a country with religious freedom, yet you are only free if you follow Christ." Here's the big question-HOW are you only free if you follow Christ? Hmmmm? You are free to worship as you like, to proclaim your faith or lack thereof as you like, to live as you want to live! The litney of religions listed, jews, muslims, satanist, wiccans, proves the point-we ARE a diverse nation religiously. Do Christians outnumber all other denominations combined? Certainly, I don't deny that. But everyone else has their chance as well.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled blogger. Take it away, Charles! ;)
Yeah, but I just got sick of being patronised by Christians, so now I just patronise them back. It's what stops me shooting myself.
Please don't shoot yourself, Simon, I'd miss your acerbic wit terribly. :(
Chris, great posts, both parts one and two. I'm a fallen away Catholic myself. I've kept my belief in, God, however. I do enjoy beating up on Simon, also.
Can't wait for the next two parts.
Just wanted to give you all a status update. We remain very busy here at work so I haven't had much time to write. I am still working on Part II-2. I'm about halfway done with it and hopefuly will have it ready for you all shortly.
Thanks go to Simon, http://skorohnomis.blogspot.com/, for refering his readers to my blog. I greatly appreciate anything that increases my readership. :)
Chris,
I am saddended to read your story.
As I have just said to Simon (http://skorohnomis.blogspot.com/), "...can anyone explain to me why, if they wanted to conspire to invent something, the disciples of the historical Jesus did no make more of an effort to ensure that their witness statements did not appear to contradict each other?"
...and...
"The Bible may be full of apparent contradictions; which are most easily 'spotted' by those that wish to see them..."
Like you I think, I was born a sceptic, and have found it hard to live with fundamentalists. But unlike you, I have not "thrown the baby out with the bathwater".
Please visit http://www.geosus.org.uk and let me know what you think at http://geosus.blogspot.com
Thanks,
Martin.
I wish you'd do little everyday posts, this waiting is crap.
i think the catholic church's stance on contraception is the new kind of crusade - they can't get away with slaughtering non-catholics anymore, so they've settled for out-breeding them.
Even if it means the deaths of millions of Africans from AIDS.
By the way, I wanted to say belatedly that I liked reading your posts very much and it was a pleasure to redirect a little traffic your way.
Jerry
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